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	<title>Comments on: Monthly Gleanings: March 2009</title>
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	<description>Academic insights for the thinking world.</description>
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		<title>By: Twitter Trackbacks for Monthly Gleanings: March 2009 : OUPblog [oup.com] on Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/gleanings_march/comment-page-1/#comment-153387</link>
		<dc:creator>Twitter Trackbacks for Monthly Gleanings: March 2009 : OUPblog [oup.com] on Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Monthly Gleanings: March 2009 : OUPblog  blog.oup.com/2009/03/gleanings_march &#8211; view page &#8211; cached  Filed in A-Featured , Dictionaries , Lexicography , Oxford Etymologist , Reference on March 25, 2009 &#124; &#8212; From the page [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Monthly Gleanings: March 2009 : OUPblog  blog.oup.com/2009/03/gleanings_march &ndash; view page &ndash; cached  Filed in A-Featured , Dictionaries , Lexicography , Oxford Etymologist , Reference on March 25, 2009 | &mdash; From the page [...]</p>
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		<title>By: J. P. Maher</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/gleanings_march/comment-page-1/#comment-151943</link>
		<dc:creator>J. P. Maher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>To my earlier note:
1)PESARO I misspelled as &quot;PEASRO&quot;.

2)the Slovenian word for FOUNDRY is not FUZINA: that&#039;s a forge -- where metal is hammered, e.g. wrought iron. Metal is cast in a LIVNICA or VLIVARNICA &#039;foundry&#039;. So Italian FUCINA/Venetian FUZINA is forge, not foundry. Foundry is FONDERIA, and not GETTO.

ADDENDA:
Italian settlements at a city&#039;s edge, once poor and shabby, are termed by the Italian Post Office GHETTO (singular), but also CASE (plural of CASA &#039;house&#039;). An exact formal parallel to Italian BORGHETTO -- diminutive of BORGO -- is Yiddish SHTETL -- diminutive of SHTOT &#039;town, city&#039;. In addition there are shtetls called &quot;house/houses&quot;, e.g. Polish CHYZA, Ukrainian KHYZHI.
Cecil Roth was both right and wrong. He was right when he advocated the etymology GHETTO from  BORGHETTO. He was wrong when he switched to GHETTO as if cognate of Germanic word GATA, GATE (in Yorkshire a street, rather than the portal), German GASSE &#039;back street, lane&#039;, Yidddish GAS. Those are mere look look-alikes and unrelated. Compare Spanish MUCHO and English MUCH, earlier MYCEL... The Latter is from the same Indo-European source as Greek MEGA, Latin MAGNUS, Sanskrit MAHA... Spanish MUCHO is from Latin MULTUS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To my earlier note:<br />
1)PESARO I misspelled as &#8220;PEASRO&#8221;.</p>
<p>2)the Slovenian word for FOUNDRY is not FUZINA: that&#8217;s a forge &#8212; where metal is hammered, e.g. wrought iron. Metal is cast in a LIVNICA or VLIVARNICA &#8216;foundry&#8217;. So Italian FUCINA/Venetian FUZINA is forge, not foundry. Foundry is FONDERIA, and not GETTO.</p>
<p>ADDENDA:<br />
Italian settlements at a city&#8217;s edge, once poor and shabby, are termed by the Italian Post Office GHETTO (singular), but also CASE (plural of CASA &#8216;house&#8217;). An exact formal parallel to Italian BORGHETTO &#8212; diminutive of BORGO &#8212; is Yiddish SHTETL &#8212; diminutive of SHTOT &#8216;town, city&#8217;. In addition there are shtetls called &#8220;house/houses&#8221;, e.g. Polish CHYZA, Ukrainian KHYZHI.<br />
Cecil Roth was both right and wrong. He was right when he advocated the etymology GHETTO from  BORGHETTO. He was wrong when he switched to GHETTO as if cognate of Germanic word GATA, GATE (in Yorkshire a street, rather than the portal), German GASSE &#8216;back street, lane&#8217;, Yidddish GAS. Those are mere look look-alikes and unrelated. Compare Spanish MUCHO and English MUCH, earlier MYCEL&#8230; The Latter is from the same Indo-European source as Greek MEGA, Latin MAGNUS, Sanskrit MAHA&#8230; Spanish MUCHO is from Latin MULTUS.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/gleanings_march/comment-page-1/#comment-151879</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 03:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I was surprised to see the quote from &quot;The Blue Cross&quot; summarily dismissed. I think it deserves more attention than that. See my post at http://askchaka.blogspot.com/2009/06/father-brown-in-excluded-middle.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was surprised to see the quote from &#8220;The Blue Cross&#8221; summarily dismissed. I think it deserves more attention than that. See my post at <a href="http://askchaka.blogspot.com/2009/06/father-brown-in-excluded-middle.html" rel="nofollow">http://askchaka.blogspot.com/2009/06/father-brown-in-excluded-middle.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/gleanings_march/comment-page-1/#comment-150265</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 09:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oup.com/?p=3785#comment-150265</guid>
		<description>Ghetto. On Google Maps and Google Earth you can find many north Italian municipalities called GHETTO. With postal code prefixes see: 

31021 Ghetto di Mogliano Veneto TV(Treviso)
37060 Sorgà VR (Verona)
Ghetto, Pesaro PU (Peasro-Urbino)
Ghetto, Sorgà VR
Ghetto, Teolo PD (Padova)
Ghetto, Ro  FE (Ferrara)
Ghetto, Berra FE
Ghetto, Monselice PD
Ghetto, Moglia MN (Mantova)
Ghetto, San Francesca al Campo TO (Torino)
Ghetto, Concordia sulla Secchia MO (Modena)

Just two stops by train from Venice there is a place called Ghetto di Mogliano Veneto. There is no Jewish connection. Old maps here marked “houses of the family Valonga.&quot; A man of the Valonga family was given the nickname VALONGHETTO. The clipping of this long form is the source of the Mogliano place name. There are many other places in northeastern Italy called GHETTO that are not Jewish and had no foundries. See:
http://www.comune.mogliano-veneto.tv.it/aree_tematiche/citta/territorio/luoghi_nomi.html

“Foundry” in the Venetian dialect is fusina. It also shows up in Venetian Slovenia, as the toponym Stara Fuzhina ‘Old Forge”. – GHETTA “protoxide of lead” is from German (BLEI-GLAETTE &#039;lead sheen’, used to pretty up cast iron work.  – GHECTUS is a wannabe “Latin” form crafted on inverted analogy of Italian PERFETTO from PERFECTUS, Italian OTTO for OCTO etc... The C of GHECTUS is fake, like the S of ISLAND and the L of COULD. 
   The term for the Jewish quarter used in Pope Paul IV’s Bull Nimis absurdum (1555) is not GHECTUS, but VICUS IUDAICUS. One or more, according to population, streets were to be assigned. &quot;The street&quot; is the word all over Europe for ghetto. 

Anatoly Liberman is perfectly right to point out that GETTO has an open E, while GHETTO has a close E. This not only makes impossible the derivation from &quot;foundry&quot;, but also corroborates the etymology GHETTO from BORGHETTO, which has its close E precisely because it is the clipping of BORGHETTO &#039;little (slummy) street&quot;. The diminutive/pejorative suffix -ETTO, like BORGO, is of Germanic origin. The minimal crummy little town is a road with houses alongside, just a street. BORGO and  BORGHETTO in effect mean “the street&#039;, a smelly dirty one, just the place to dump unloved outsiders, not always Jews. “Ghetto in MANY localities is the name for places where houses are little, poor and dirty.” (Prati 1951:486, translator jpm)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ghetto. On Google Maps and Google Earth you can find many north Italian municipalities called GHETTO. With postal code prefixes see: </p>
<p>31021 Ghetto di Mogliano Veneto TV(Treviso)<br />
37060 Sorgà VR (Verona)<br />
Ghetto, Pesaro PU (Peasro-Urbino)<br />
Ghetto, Sorgà VR<br />
Ghetto, Teolo PD (Padova)<br />
Ghetto, Ro  FE (Ferrara)<br />
Ghetto, Berra FE<br />
Ghetto, Monselice PD<br />
Ghetto, Moglia MN (Mantova)<br />
Ghetto, San Francesca al Campo TO (Torino)<br />
Ghetto, Concordia sulla Secchia MO (Modena)</p>
<p>Just two stops by train from Venice there is a place called Ghetto di Mogliano Veneto. There is no Jewish connection. Old maps here marked “houses of the family Valonga.&#8221; A man of the Valonga family was given the nickname VALONGHETTO. The clipping of this long form is the source of the Mogliano place name. There are many other places in northeastern Italy called GHETTO that are not Jewish and had no foundries. See:<br />
<a href="http://www.comune.mogliano-veneto.tv.it/aree_tematiche/citta/territorio/luoghi_nomi.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.comune.mogliano-veneto.tv.it/aree_tematiche/citta/territorio/luoghi_nomi.html</a></p>
<p>“Foundry” in the Venetian dialect is fusina. It also shows up in Venetian Slovenia, as the toponym Stara Fuzhina ‘Old Forge”. – GHETTA “protoxide of lead” is from German (BLEI-GLAETTE &#8216;lead sheen’, used to pretty up cast iron work.  – GHECTUS is a wannabe “Latin” form crafted on inverted analogy of Italian PERFETTO from PERFECTUS, Italian OTTO for OCTO etc&#8230; The C of GHECTUS is fake, like the S of ISLAND and the L of COULD.<br />
   The term for the Jewish quarter used in Pope Paul IV’s Bull Nimis absurdum (1555) is not GHECTUS, but VICUS IUDAICUS. One or more, according to population, streets were to be assigned. &#8220;The street&#8221; is the word all over Europe for ghetto. </p>
<p>Anatoly Liberman is perfectly right to point out that GETTO has an open E, while GHETTO has a close E. This not only makes impossible the derivation from &#8220;foundry&#8221;, but also corroborates the etymology GHETTO from BORGHETTO, which has its close E precisely because it is the clipping of BORGHETTO &#8216;little (slummy) street&#8221;. The diminutive/pejorative suffix -ETTO, like BORGO, is of Germanic origin. The minimal crummy little town is a road with houses alongside, just a street. BORGO and  BORGHETTO in effect mean “the street&#8217;, a smelly dirty one, just the place to dump unloved outsiders, not always Jews. “Ghetto in MANY localities is the name for places where houses are little, poor and dirty.” (Prati 1951:486, translator jpm)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/gleanings_march/comment-page-1/#comment-149883</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>re acronyms, how about:
SCUBA (self-contained underwater breathing apparatus), 
NABISCO: National Biscuit Company
COBOL : Common Business Oriented Language
LASER: light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation
BASIC: beginner’s all-purpose symbolic instruction code
jeep (that is, g. p.  or &#039;general purpose&#039;), 
radar (radio detecting and ranging)   
PEN (writers&#039; org.: Poets, Essayists and Novelists)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re acronyms, how about:<br />
SCUBA (self-contained underwater breathing apparatus),<br />
NABISCO: National Biscuit Company<br />
COBOL : Common Business Oriented Language<br />
LASER: light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation<br />
BASIC: beginner’s all-purpose symbolic instruction code<br />
jeep (that is, g. p.  or &#8216;general purpose&#8217;),<br />
radar (radio detecting and ranging)<br />
PEN (writers&#8217; org.: Poets, Essayists and Novelists)</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Peterson</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/gleanings_march/comment-page-1/#comment-149873</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Andreas:

The reason for not mentioning Danish or Norwegian is that both have changed pronunciation and spelling, whereas Icelandic and Swedish have retained a much older form. Being that Anatoly knows about all of the Scandinavian &quot;dialects,&quot; mentioning Norwegian or Danish forms is taken for granted. The Danish form has voiced the -t- (to -d-), and the Norwegian form has schwa-ed the final -a to -e. Of course all of these (gata/gate/gade) come from what must have been an identical Old Norse word (gata), it is merely that Swedish and Icelandic have best preserved the spelling and pronunciation in this case (as many others).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andreas:</p>
<p>The reason for not mentioning Danish or Norwegian is that both have changed pronunciation and spelling, whereas Icelandic and Swedish have retained a much older form. Being that Anatoly knows about all of the Scandinavian &#8220;dialects,&#8221; mentioning Norwegian or Danish forms is taken for granted. The Danish form has voiced the -t- (to -d-), and the Norwegian form has schwa-ed the final -a to -e. Of course all of these (gata/gate/gade) come from what must have been an identical Old Norse word (gata), it is merely that Swedish and Icelandic have best preserved the spelling and pronunciation in this case (as many others).</p>
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		<title>By: John Doherty</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/gleanings_march/comment-page-1/#comment-149847</link>
		<dc:creator>John Doherty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 04:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Regarding Shakespeare and Jews, The Jew Dr Lopez was convicted of plotting against Queen Elizabeth&#039;s life in a very public trial. Shakespeare would also have been familiar with Christopher Marlowe&#039;s play, The Jew of Malta.
Concerning the attempts to push Shakespeare of his pedestal, the main weapon Shakespeare&#039;s opponents use is his claimed lack of education. This they base on unwarranted assumptions, legend, and misreporting by such as Nicholas Rowe. This is a question examined more fully in my book, The Ignorance of Shakespeare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Shakespeare and Jews, The Jew Dr Lopez was convicted of plotting against Queen Elizabeth&#8217;s life in a very public trial. Shakespeare would also have been familiar with Christopher Marlowe&#8217;s play, The Jew of Malta.<br />
Concerning the attempts to push Shakespeare of his pedestal, the main weapon Shakespeare&#8217;s opponents use is his claimed lack of education. This they base on unwarranted assumptions, legend, and misreporting by such as Nicholas Rowe. This is a question examined more fully in my book, The Ignorance of Shakespeare.</p>
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		<title>By: andreas</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/gleanings_march/comment-page-1/#comment-149839</link>
		<dc:creator>andreas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;There seems to have been a European migratory word for “street; public space; market” that is reflected in Icelandic and Swedish gata “street”&quot;

- is there any reason for not mentioning Danish &quot;gade&quot; and Norwegian &quot;gate&quot; here, or is it just coincidence? I&#039;m just curious - is there some argument that the word in question is not related to these, but to the Swedish and Icelandic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There seems to have been a European migratory word for “street; public space; market” that is reflected in Icelandic and Swedish gata “street”&#8221;</p>
<p>- is there any reason for not mentioning Danish &#8220;gade&#8221; and Norwegian &#8220;gate&#8221; here, or is it just coincidence? I&#8217;m just curious &#8211; is there some argument that the word in question is not related to these, but to the Swedish and Icelandic?</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Goranson</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/gleanings_march/comment-page-1/#comment-149825</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Goranson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well done, Anatoly and Doug!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done, Anatoly and Doug!</p>
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