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	<title>Comments on: Why Don&#8217;t We Know the Origin of the Word Ghetto?</title>
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		<title>By: J P Maher</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-152739</link>
		<dc:creator>J P Maher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Walls: Venice&#039;s diarist Marin Sanudo, who was eye-witness to the proceedings that proclaimed the sequestration of 29 March 1516 describes (in Venetian language) the place, an island of course, and well off from the city proper: it was &quot;como un castello – like a castle”. The island, that is, was already walled before its Jewish chapter. Furthermore GETO (NOT &quot;the&quot; ghetto) was one island that had no church to deconsecrate. The Turkish counterpart, Fondaco dei Turchi, had its windows overlooking the canals walled up. Light came in only through a central courtyard. They too were locked in at night like the Christians in Istanbul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walls: Venice&#8217;s diarist Marin Sanudo, who was eye-witness to the proceedings that proclaimed the sequestration of 29 March 1516 describes (in Venetian language) the place, an island of course, and well off from the city proper: it was &#8220;como un castello – like a castle”. The island, that is, was already walled before its Jewish chapter. Furthermore GETO (NOT &#8220;the&#8221; ghetto) was one island that had no church to deconsecrate. The Turkish counterpart, Fondaco dei Turchi, had its windows overlooking the canals walled up. Light came in only through a central courtyard. They too were locked in at night like the Christians in Istanbul.</p>
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		<title>By: J P Maher</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-152738</link>
		<dc:creator>J P Maher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Giudaicetum is a bit weird, but not too much. There are many Latin nouns for places, albeit named for (stands of) trees that became place names. Most famous is Jerusalem&#039;s Mount of Olives, Olivetum &#039;olive grove&#039;. The suffix doesn&#039;t directly mean &#039;grove&#039;, but names a sort of place: there&#039;s Italy&#039;s city of Rovereto &lt; Latin Roburetum &#039;oak grove&#039;. A different species of oak is behind quercetum (quercus). Cf. also dumetum &#039;thicket&#039;, alnetum &#039;alder grove&#039;, castanetum &#039;chestnut&#039;, pinetum, salicetum &#039;willow&#039; (as in sodium acetyl salicylate (aspirin), English sallow [complexion], Irish sally [garden]. Siena&#039;s Jews dwelt just up the hill above a locality Salicotto.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giudaicetum is a bit weird, but not too much. There are many Latin nouns for places, albeit named for (stands of) trees that became place names. Most famous is Jerusalem&#8217;s Mount of Olives, Olivetum &#8216;olive grove&#8217;. The suffix doesn&#8217;t directly mean &#8216;grove&#8217;, but names a sort of place: there&#8217;s Italy&#8217;s city of Rovereto &lt; Latin Roburetum &#8216;oak grove&#8217;. A different species of oak is behind quercetum (quercus). Cf. also dumetum &#8216;thicket&#8217;, alnetum &#8216;alder grove&#8217;, castanetum &#8216;chestnut&#8217;, pinetum, salicetum &#8216;willow&#8217; (as in sodium acetyl salicylate (aspirin), English sallow [complexion], Irish sally [garden]. Siena&#8217;s Jews dwelt just up the hill above a locality Salicotto.</p>
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		<title>By: Day 16 – Pitigliano It&#8217;s So Not (Jewish) Ghetto &#171; Beccarama</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-152685</link>
		<dc:creator>Day 16 – Pitigliano It&#8217;s So Not (Jewish) Ghetto &#171; Beccarama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 06:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oup.com/?p=3481#comment-152685</guid>
		<description>[...] at night.  To see an interesting and insightful examination of the etymology of the word ghetto click here).  We went specifically to see the reconstructed temple from 1598 and meander the streets that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] at night.  To see an interesting and insightful examination of the etymology of the word ghetto click here).  We went specifically to see the reconstructed temple from 1598 and meander the streets that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: J P Maher</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-152621</link>
		<dc:creator>J P Maher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Vowel quality does not differ in Italian diminutive -etto and bor-ghetto. American tourists report hearin italian guides saying &quot;gate-oh&quot;. 

Professor Liberman wrote “Contemporaries of the first ghetto in Venice failed to associate ghetto with borghetto.” The complex sentence has these propositions:
1.	why the contemporaries
2.	of the first ghetto in Venice 
3.	failed to associate ghetto with borghetto
4.	invented Hebrew etymologies for it. 

The Venice Jewish quarter that we now call “il ghetto” was not the first such Jewish precinct, in Venice or anywhere else. The 1516 sequestration of Jews on the Venice island written variously Geto ~ Gheto ~ Ghetto was not the first “ghettoization”. Sequestratiom of Jews and others is common around the world over the centuries. Areas predominantly inhabited by Jews at other times had gentile inhabitants, too. Many foreigners in Venice were segregated (Lucchesi, Lombards, Tuscans, Germans, Muslims). Before 1516 Jews lived on various islands of Venice. The Senate considered segregating Jews on the islands Giudecca (Venetian Zoega) and Murano, but the plans fell through. 
It was not in 1516 in Venice, to explain the Venetian island toponym Ghetto, that  a Hebrew folk etymology ghet ‘divorce decree’ was invoked by Jewish notaries. It was in Rome, a full century later, and had to do, not with Venice, but with a foul-smelling Roman street (even in the mid 1800s), called Ghetto. In the papal bull Nimis Absurdum (‘enough’s enough’) issued by Paul IV in 1555, the ecclesiastical Latin word used by the pope’s amanuenses was vicus ‘street, vici ‘streets’, not mock-Latin ghectus. In a second papal bull Dudum a felicis (‘it’s about time’), not Venice’s, but the name of Rome’s slum street Ghetto was written ghectus, just as scribes wrote the Italian word tutti ‘all’ as tucti, Matteo as Macthaeo; they wrote quattro &#039;4&#039; as quactro. 
In Venice every street is an island, every island a street. A street is a cluster of houses. Italian maps label settlements &quot;case di ‘houses of X&quot;. The people call “the mean streets” a &quot;ghetto&quot;. Northeastern and central Italy have scores of ghetti. The Italian Post Office has postal codes/ZIP Codes for them, CAP (Codice Avviamento Postale).
“Contemporaries of the first ghetto in Venice failed to associate ghetto with borghetto.” —What evidence.is there that they didn’t?  Association of the words ghetto and borghetto is inescapable in Italian Sprachgefühl. 
Aphesis: for anyone knowing Venetian and Tuscan the connection is unavoidable. Compare in English ’shrooms for mushrooms, drawing room, to which English gentlemen withdrew to smoke, leaving their ladies to their amusements; mend for amend/emend, cute for acute, pert for apert (note the homonymy of the indefinite article (a) and prefixes)  Aphesis flourishes in Itralian (and Venetian). In English aAnyone can trace the source of ’puter (my grandson’s creation). Or ’buke (Southern Baptist for rebuke). In the Veneto America is Merica; l’arena is la rena A satirical paper features the head of a reindeer, La Renna, in a logo pun on L’Arena di Verona, adverting to Verona’s famous Roman amphitheater and the major local newspaper. 

The source of ghetto is all over the map of Italy, toponomastically and in figurative language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vowel quality does not differ in Italian diminutive -etto and bor-ghetto. American tourists report hearin italian guides saying &#8220;gate-oh&#8221;. </p>
<p>Professor Liberman wrote “Contemporaries of the first ghetto in Venice failed to associate ghetto with borghetto.” The complex sentence has these propositions:<br />
1.	why the contemporaries<br />
2.	of the first ghetto in Venice<br />
3.	failed to associate ghetto with borghetto<br />
4.	invented Hebrew etymologies for it. </p>
<p>The Venice Jewish quarter that we now call “il ghetto” was not the first such Jewish precinct, in Venice or anywhere else. The 1516 sequestration of Jews on the Venice island written variously Geto ~ Gheto ~ Ghetto was not the first “ghettoization”. Sequestratiom of Jews and others is common around the world over the centuries. Areas predominantly inhabited by Jews at other times had gentile inhabitants, too. Many foreigners in Venice were segregated (Lucchesi, Lombards, Tuscans, Germans, Muslims). Before 1516 Jews lived on various islands of Venice. The Senate considered segregating Jews on the islands Giudecca (Venetian Zoega) and Murano, but the plans fell through.<br />
It was not in 1516 in Venice, to explain the Venetian island toponym Ghetto, that  a Hebrew folk etymology ghet ‘divorce decree’ was invoked by Jewish notaries. It was in Rome, a full century later, and had to do, not with Venice, but with a foul-smelling Roman street (even in the mid 1800s), called Ghetto. In the papal bull Nimis Absurdum (‘enough’s enough’) issued by Paul IV in 1555, the ecclesiastical Latin word used by the pope’s amanuenses was vicus ‘street, vici ‘streets’, not mock-Latin ghectus. In a second papal bull Dudum a felicis (‘it’s about time’), not Venice’s, but the name of Rome’s slum street Ghetto was written ghectus, just as scribes wrote the Italian word tutti ‘all’ as tucti, Matteo as Macthaeo; they wrote quattro &#8216;4&#8242; as quactro.<br />
In Venice every street is an island, every island a street. A street is a cluster of houses. Italian maps label settlements &#8220;case di ‘houses of X&#8221;. The people call “the mean streets” a &#8220;ghetto&#8221;. Northeastern and central Italy have scores of ghetti. The Italian Post Office has postal codes/ZIP Codes for them, CAP (Codice Avviamento Postale).<br />
“Contemporaries of the first ghetto in Venice failed to associate ghetto with borghetto.” —What evidence.is there that they didn’t?  Association of the words ghetto and borghetto is inescapable in Italian Sprachgefühl.<br />
Aphesis: for anyone knowing Venetian and Tuscan the connection is unavoidable. Compare in English ’shrooms for mushrooms, drawing room, to which English gentlemen withdrew to smoke, leaving their ladies to their amusements; mend for amend/emend, cute for acute, pert for apert (note the homonymy of the indefinite article (a) and prefixes)  Aphesis flourishes in Itralian (and Venetian). In English aAnyone can trace the source of ’puter (my grandson’s creation). Or ’buke (Southern Baptist for rebuke). In the Veneto America is Merica; l’arena is la rena A satirical paper features the head of a reindeer, La Renna, in a logo pun on L’Arena di Verona, adverting to Verona’s famous Roman amphitheater and the major local newspaper. </p>
<p>The source of ghetto is all over the map of Italy, toponomastically and in figurative language.</p>
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		<title>By: The Glamour of Grammar &#124; Lawrence S. Miller &#124; My Personal Insights</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-150573</link>
		<dc:creator>The Glamour of Grammar &#124; Lawrence S. Miller &#124; My Personal Insights</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 09:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oup.com/?p=3481#comment-150573</guid>
		<description>[...] Why Don&#8217;t We Know the Origin of the Word Ghetto? (oup.com) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why Don&#8217;t We Know the Origin of the Word Ghetto? (oup.com) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Monthly Gleanings: March 2009 : OUPblog</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-149809</link>
		<dc:creator>Monthly Gleanings: March 2009 : OUPblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oup.com/?p=3481#comment-149809</guid>
		<description>[...] to ghetto. Several days after I posted my etymology on ghetto, I received a letter from Doug Wilson, who has more than once supplied me with valuable [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to ghetto. Several days after I posted my etymology on ghetto, I received a letter from Doug Wilson, who has more than once supplied me with valuable [...]</p>
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		<title>By: walter</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-149729</link>
		<dc:creator>walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 01:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My guess re:origin of &quot;ghetto&quot; is to be found where &quot;ghettos&quot; were most concentrated, namely Poland and Ukraine during the times of the &quot;pale of settlement&quot;.  Ukrainian word &quot;zhytlo&quot; and &quot;zhytia&quot;  meaning shelter (place for living)and life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My guess re:origin of &#8220;ghetto&#8221; is to be found where &#8220;ghettos&#8221; were most concentrated, namely Poland and Ukraine during the times of the &#8220;pale of settlement&#8221;.  Ukrainian word &#8220;zhytlo&#8221; and &#8220;zhytia&#8221;  meaning shelter (place for living)and life.</p>
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		<title>By: fade theory &#187; latest and greatest</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-149614</link>
		<dc:creator>fade theory &#187; latest and greatest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oup.com/?p=3481#comment-149614</guid>
		<description>[...] °Everyone&#8217;s favorite Oxford Etymologist asks, &#8220;Why Don’t We Know the Origin of the Word Ghetto?&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] °Everyone&#8217;s favorite Oxford Etymologist asks, &#8220;Why Don’t We Know the Origin of the Word Ghetto?&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: etymology of ghetto &#124; podictionary - for word lovers - dictionary etymology, trivia &#38; history</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-149592</link>
		<dc:creator>etymology of ghetto &#124; podictionary - for word lovers - dictionary etymology, trivia &#38; history</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 13:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] 2009 Update: Anatoly Liberman has done a far more exacting job on the word over on the Oxford University Press blog where he [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2009 Update: Anatoly Liberman has done a far more exacting job on the word over on the Oxford University Press blog where he [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Posts about Language and Dialects as of March 5, 2009</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2009/03/ghetto/comment-page-1/#comment-149570</link>
		<dc:creator>Posts about Language and Dialects as of March 5, 2009</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Prescriptivists (think an MD’s awful writing) are people who think the language (really any   Why Don’t We Know the Origin of the Word Ghetto? - blog.oup.com 03/04/2009 By Anatoly Liberman Linguists, historians, journalists, and well-meaning [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Prescriptivists (think an MD’s awful writing) are people who think the language (really any   Why Don’t We Know the Origin of the Word Ghetto? &#8211; blog.oup.com 03/04/2009 By Anatoly Liberman Linguists, historians, journalists, and well-meaning [...]</p>
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