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	<title>Comments on: Visiting Thomas Jefferson&#8217;s Grave</title>
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	<link>http://blog.oup.com/2008/04/jefferson/</link>
	<description>Introducing brilliant authors to the blogosphere.</description>
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		<title>By: The comeback of Reparations &#171; The Sable Verity</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2008/04/jefferson/comment-page-1/#comment-145548</link>
		<dc:creator>The comeback of Reparations &#171; The Sable Verity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 19:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] slavery as well.  (I did write about Harvard&#8217;s non-investigation recently and a little about a potential lawsuit by Sally Hemings&#8217; issue to get access to Thomas Jefferson&#8217;s grave and here a few weeks [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] slavery as well.  (I did write about Harvard&#8217;s non-investigation recently and a little about a potential lawsuit by Sally Hemings&#8217; issue to get access to Thomas Jefferson&#8217;s grave and here a few weeks [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Al Brophy</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2008/04/jefferson/comment-page-1/#comment-145162</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Brophy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 23:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.oup.com/2008/04/jefferson/#comment-145162</guid>
		<description>Thanks for joining the discussion, Mr. Moyer.  I particularly appreciate your willingness to discuss this, given your position as president of the Monticello Association.

Hmm.  The central place of our disagreement is (I guess this is obvious), whether Hemings&#039; descendants are also Thomas Jefferson&#039;s descendants.  For example, your statement that &quot;the Monticello Association has never barred access to the cemetery to descendants of people buried there&quot; is accurate only if Hemings&#039; descendants--who have been denied membership in the Monticello Association and a right to visit the grave last summer--are not Jefferson descendants.  But the Association is the group making the determination of whether Hemings&#039; descendants are related to Jefferson, so this rather quickly becomes circular.

Are Hemings&#039; descendants also descendants of Thomas Jefferson?  Here the evidence is a combination of DNA and more traditional historical evidence.  The DNA evidence links Hemings descendants and Jefferson&#039;s family, but does not firmly (as you point out) link Thomas Jefferson as the father.  To refine the case made by DNA, scholars have looked to other evidence, like where Hemings and Thomas Jefferson were at the time of conception of Hemings&#039; children.  The Thomas Jefferson Foundation&#039;s report maintains that the case has been convincingly made.  Their report is available here: http://www.monticello.org/plantation/hemingscontro/jefferson-hemings_report.pdf
There is also a minority report, which disputes the majority report.  It is available here:
http://www.monticello.org/plantation/hemingscontro/minority_report.pdf

This is the key question that a court interpreting the Virginia cemetery access law would have to confront in deciding whether Hemings&#039; descendants are entitled to use the law to access Jefferson&#039;s grave.  This is a civil not a criminal case, so the question is: &quot;are Hemings&#039; descendants more likely than not descended from Thomas Jefferson?&quot;  The question is not, &quot;is there some plausible theory that they are descended from someone other than Thomas Jefferson?&quot; Given the standard for access, it seems likely that the Hemings descendants will meet that standard.

I take it there might be some other important issues that would flow from a court&#039;s determination of paternity, however.  The Monticello Association&#039;s website reports that lineal descendants of Jefferson are entitled to be buried in the graveyard.  (I&#039;d like to see the deed from the Thomas Jefferson Randolph family to the Monticello Association to know more about the nature of this right.)  So a determination of paternity might allow Hemings&#039; descendants to be buried there as well.

While a lawsuit might put an end to the conflicting claims about paternity, I&#039;m no fan of lawsuits.  They are costly in time, money, and good will.  I hope the question of access for Hemings&#039; descendants will be settled in a positive and forward-looking way, which preserves the integrity and solemnity of Mr. Jefferson&#039;s gravesite, while at the same time recognizing the right that Hemings&#039; descendants have to visit the grave.  Our country is indebted to Mr. Jefferson for many lessons about humanity and politics, and now, generations after his passing, he is still teaching us about our common bonds and about access to property, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for joining the discussion, Mr. Moyer.  I particularly appreciate your willingness to discuss this, given your position as president of the Monticello Association.</p>
<p>Hmm.  The central place of our disagreement is (I guess this is obvious), whether Hemings&#8217; descendants are also Thomas Jefferson&#8217;s descendants.  For example, your statement that &#8220;the Monticello Association has never barred access to the cemetery to descendants of people buried there&#8221; is accurate only if Hemings&#8217; descendants&#8211;who have been denied membership in the Monticello Association and a right to visit the grave last summer&#8211;are not Jefferson descendants.  But the Association is the group making the determination of whether Hemings&#8217; descendants are related to Jefferson, so this rather quickly becomes circular.</p>
<p>Are Hemings&#8217; descendants also descendants of Thomas Jefferson?  Here the evidence is a combination of DNA and more traditional historical evidence.  The DNA evidence links Hemings descendants and Jefferson&#8217;s family, but does not firmly (as you point out) link Thomas Jefferson as the father.  To refine the case made by DNA, scholars have looked to other evidence, like where Hemings and Thomas Jefferson were at the time of conception of Hemings&#8217; children.  The Thomas Jefferson Foundation&#8217;s report maintains that the case has been convincingly made.  Their report is available here: <a href="http://www.monticello.org/plantation/hemingscontro/jefferson-hemings_report.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.monticello.org/plantation/hemingscontro/jefferson-hemings_report.pdf</a><br />
There is also a minority report, which disputes the majority report.  It is available here:<br />
<a href="http://www.monticello.org/plantation/hemingscontro/minority_report.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.monticello.org/plantation/hemingscontro/minority_report.pdf</a></p>
<p>This is the key question that a court interpreting the Virginia cemetery access law would have to confront in deciding whether Hemings&#8217; descendants are entitled to use the law to access Jefferson&#8217;s grave.  This is a civil not a criminal case, so the question is: &#8220;are Hemings&#8217; descendants more likely than not descended from Thomas Jefferson?&#8221;  The question is not, &#8220;is there some plausible theory that they are descended from someone other than Thomas Jefferson?&#8221; Given the standard for access, it seems likely that the Hemings descendants will meet that standard.</p>
<p>I take it there might be some other important issues that would flow from a court&#8217;s determination of paternity, however.  The Monticello Association&#8217;s website reports that lineal descendants of Jefferson are entitled to be buried in the graveyard.  (I&#8217;d like to see the deed from the Thomas Jefferson Randolph family to the Monticello Association to know more about the nature of this right.)  So a determination of paternity might allow Hemings&#8217; descendants to be buried there as well.</p>
<p>While a lawsuit might put an end to the conflicting claims about paternity, I&#8217;m no fan of lawsuits.  They are costly in time, money, and good will.  I hope the question of access for Hemings&#8217; descendants will be settled in a positive and forward-looking way, which preserves the integrity and solemnity of Mr. Jefferson&#8217;s gravesite, while at the same time recognizing the right that Hemings&#8217; descendants have to visit the grave.  Our country is indebted to Mr. Jefferson for many lessons about humanity and politics, and now, generations after his passing, he is still teaching us about our common bonds and about access to property, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Moyer</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2008/04/jefferson/comment-page-1/#comment-144542</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Moyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I hope that Mr. Brophy&#039;s books are more accurate than this article.  Here are some corrections that need to be made:

1.  The reunion that Mr. Brophy cites was not a reunion of Jefferson&#039;s descendants, but a reunion for the descendants of ALL the people who had lived and worked at Monticello.

2.  The Graveyard is not owned by SOME of the descendants of Thomas Jefferson, but by ALL of the descendants of Thomas Jefferson.

3.  The DNA evidence proved only what has been known for almost 200 years - namely that A Jefferson fathered SOME of the Hemings children.  The DNA tests cannot pinpoint exactly who fathered the children for two reasons:  (a) Jefferson had no male children who bore children, and (b) the DNA markers necessary to pinpoint exactly who fathered the children mutate over several generations to the point where a paternity test would be useless.   In fact, theoretically, Jefferson&#039;s grandfather could have been the father of the children (which we know can&#039;t be true).

4.  The Monticello Association has NEVER barred access to the cemetery to descendants of individuals buried there.

5.  Suggesting that the Hemings go to court and sue for admittance to the Graveyard is an interesting idea, but I strongly suspect that it would fail for exactly the same reason that the Association refused them membership - namely that of being unable to prove that they are descended from Jefferson.  If their lineage to Jefferson is so solid, why haven&#039;t they joined other genealogical societies such as the Signers Of The Declaration Of Independence, the Sons Of The American Revolution, and the Daughters Of The American Revolution?  Could it be that those organizations also feel that their evidence is too weak to support their claim?

6.  At one point in time, the Graveyard was open to the public, but unfortunately the public took advantage of it and chipped pieces of his gravestone off to take home as souvenirs.  This is the third gravestone that has been placed over his grave, and, since the building of the fence, the gravestone has remained intact.  If the family had wanted to keep the public from viewing his grave, they would have built a wall instead of a fence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope that Mr. Brophy&#8217;s books are more accurate than this article.  Here are some corrections that need to be made:</p>
<p>1.  The reunion that Mr. Brophy cites was not a reunion of Jefferson&#8217;s descendants, but a reunion for the descendants of ALL the people who had lived and worked at Monticello.</p>
<p>2.  The Graveyard is not owned by SOME of the descendants of Thomas Jefferson, but by ALL of the descendants of Thomas Jefferson.</p>
<p>3.  The DNA evidence proved only what has been known for almost 200 years &#8211; namely that A Jefferson fathered SOME of the Hemings children.  The DNA tests cannot pinpoint exactly who fathered the children for two reasons:  (a) Jefferson had no male children who bore children, and (b) the DNA markers necessary to pinpoint exactly who fathered the children mutate over several generations to the point where a paternity test would be useless.   In fact, theoretically, Jefferson&#8217;s grandfather could have been the father of the children (which we know can&#8217;t be true).</p>
<p>4.  The Monticello Association has NEVER barred access to the cemetery to descendants of individuals buried there.</p>
<p>5.  Suggesting that the Hemings go to court and sue for admittance to the Graveyard is an interesting idea, but I strongly suspect that it would fail for exactly the same reason that the Association refused them membership &#8211; namely that of being unable to prove that they are descended from Jefferson.  If their lineage to Jefferson is so solid, why haven&#8217;t they joined other genealogical societies such as the Signers Of The Declaration Of Independence, the Sons Of The American Revolution, and the Daughters Of The American Revolution?  Could it be that those organizations also feel that their evidence is too weak to support their claim?</p>
<p>6.  At one point in time, the Graveyard was open to the public, but unfortunately the public took advantage of it and chipped pieces of his gravestone off to take home as souvenirs.  This is the third gravestone that has been placed over his grave, and, since the building of the fence, the gravestone has remained intact.  If the family had wanted to keep the public from viewing his grave, they would have built a wall instead of a fence.</p>
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