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	<title>Comments on: Turning Patients into Consumers: The Trickle-Up Economics of HSAs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/</link>
	<description>Academic insights for the thinking world.</description>
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		<title>By: bitki derman</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/comment-page-1/#comment-153013</link>
		<dc:creator>bitki derman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://216.110.190.15/2006/02/turning_patients_into_consumers_the_trickle-up_economics_of_hsas/#comment-153013</guid>
		<description>Find items by seeing who likes what and what they like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Find items by seeing who likes what and what they like.</p>
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		<title>By: bitki derman</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/comment-page-1/#comment-153012</link>
		<dc:creator>bitki derman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://216.110.190.15/2006/02/turning_patients_into_consumers_the_trickle-up_economics_of_hsas/#comment-153012</guid>
		<description>Oxford University Press’ blog about the vector of health care costs in America</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oxford University Press’ blog about the vector of health care costs in America</p>
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		<title>By: Insurance Companies</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/comment-page-1/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Insurance Companies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Dec 2006 23:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://216.110.190.15/2006/02/turning_patients_into_consumers_the_trickle-up_economics_of_hsas/#comment-153</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Insurance Companies&lt;/strong&gt;

Includes a consumer information links, online message board, live chat, The Lattanze @ Package Sol
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Insurance Companies</strong></p>
<p>Includes a consumer information links, online message board, live chat, The Lattanze @ Package Sol</p>
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		<title>By: Raul</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/comment-page-1/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>Raul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://216.110.190.15/2006/02/turning_patients_into_consumers_the_trickle-up_economics_of_hsas/#comment-148</guid>
		<description>Thomas you are right,I agree wish you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas you are right,I agree wish you!</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/comment-page-1/#comment-147</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://216.110.190.15/2006/02/turning_patients_into_consumers_the_trickle-up_economics_of_hsas/#comment-147</guid>
		<description>[...] In theory, the president’s plan would reduce costs by a kind of trickle-up economics. If patients become more cost-conscious when they shop for health care services, eventually insurers will reduce premiums. The flaw in this logic is that the bulk of health care expenditures go to pay the large expenses of truly ill people, not antibiotics and cough syrup. Seventy percent of all health care dollars are spent on the ten percent of the sickest people. Further, patients don’t shop for health care in the same way they shop for an automobile, a television set or a good cup of coffee. Physicians, not patients, make most medical decisions - what tests to order, when a patient should be admitted to a hospital, what drugs to prescribe and whether surgery should be performed – and patients trust their doctors to make the best decisions for them. A woman who is diagnosed with breast cancer is unlikely to shop around for the cheapest surgeon. The fact that there is an expert intermediary between the product (health care services) and the consumer (the patient) makes it difficult to apply the logic of the market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In theory, the president’s plan would reduce costs by a kind of trickle-up economics. If patients become more cost-conscious when they shop for health care services, eventually insurers will reduce premiums. The flaw in this logic is that the bulk of health care expenditures go to pay the large expenses of truly ill people, not antibiotics and cough syrup. Seventy percent of all health care dollars are spent on the ten percent of the sickest people. Further, patients don’t shop for health care in the same way they shop for an automobile, a television set or a good cup of coffee. Physicians, not patients, make most medical decisions &#8211; what tests to order, when a patient should be admitted to a hospital, what drugs to prescribe and whether surgery should be performed – and patients trust their doctors to make the best decisions for them. A woman who is diagnosed with breast cancer is unlikely to shop around for the cheapest surgeon. The fact that there is an expert intermediary between the product (health care services) and the consumer (the patient) makes it difficult to apply the logic of the market.</p>
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		<title>By: test</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/comment-page-1/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>test</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 04:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://216.110.190.15/2006/02/turning_patients_into_consumers_the_trickle-up_economics_of_hsas/#comment-146</guid>
		<description>test</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>test</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn Smith</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/comment-page-1/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://216.110.190.15/2006/02/turning_patients_into_consumers_the_trickle-up_economics_of_hsas/#comment-145</guid>
		<description>I agree totally with the  skeptical attitude of Jill re:  HSA&#039;s.  The answer to health care costs is a national insurance program, based on a Canadian or VA type and not tying health insurance to employment as it is done now.    

I think our healthcare system is a glaring example of how Adam Smith&#039;s Invisible Hand does not always apply.   Capitalism does not always work and when it does, i.e., competition stimulates productivity, then the consumer is screwed because of the increased costs. Do MD&#039;s advertise?  Not usually.  No radiology or lab service publicly advertises their prices for services, noting that they are cheapest.  There is no discount for volume for a chemo patient getting CBC&#039;s, and they have many.   The consumer is uniquely vulnerable to the person they seek care from.  A classic example is the case of the individual who is uninsured and thus has to pay the outrageous fees that the company has &quot;on the books&quot;- not the fees negotiated to the big companies.  There should be SET fees, for all.  It should be illegal for quid pro quo&#039;s.  

HSA&#039;s sound good on paper, but what about the diabetic, who does not see an MD ($$$), get an oral antibiotic, then ends up with sepsis in an ICU?  How does that save money for anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree totally with the  skeptical attitude of Jill re:  HSA&#8217;s.  The answer to health care costs is a national insurance program, based on a Canadian or VA type and not tying health insurance to employment as it is done now.    </p>
<p>I think our healthcare system is a glaring example of how Adam Smith&#8217;s Invisible Hand does not always apply.   Capitalism does not always work and when it does, i.e., competition stimulates productivity, then the consumer is screwed because of the increased costs. Do MD&#8217;s advertise?  Not usually.  No radiology or lab service publicly advertises their prices for services, noting that they are cheapest.  There is no discount for volume for a chemo patient getting CBC&#8217;s, and they have many.   The consumer is uniquely vulnerable to the person they seek care from.  A classic example is the case of the individual who is uninsured and thus has to pay the outrageous fees that the company has &#8220;on the books&#8221;- not the fees negotiated to the big companies.  There should be SET fees, for all.  It should be illegal for quid pro quo&#8217;s.  </p>
<p>HSA&#8217;s sound good on paper, but what about the diabetic, who does not see an MD ($$$), get an oral antibiotic, then ends up with sepsis in an ICU?  How does that save money for anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Uitti</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/comment-page-1/#comment-144</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Uitti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://216.110.190.15/2006/02/turning_patients_into_consumers_the_trickle-up_economics_of_hsas/#comment-144</guid>
		<description>A couple years ago, one Sunday morning i got up real early, in pain.  I thought it was a stomach ache, and treated it that way for a few hours.  Then i drove myself to the hospital and checked into emergency. After stabilizing me, and running some tests it turned out that my gall bladder was non functional, and I was scheduled for surgery.  They took it out, and it turned out to be infected - gangrenous.  It all turned out fine, since i&#039;m still alive.  I don&#039;t even miss it.

A month or so later I got a bill for $0.00.  This was a good thing, since that is also the most I could afford at the time, for various reasons.

I like this health insurance.  It was very clear that i went to the hospital, and had expensive tests and surgery for cause.  In the mean time, my premiums are constant and predictable.

If they also required that i get some periodic checkup, and paid for that, then i&#039;d get a periodic checkup.  I hate them, because the doctor says &quot;You are in good health&quot;, and it is something that i already knew.  So if doctors need baseline data,  then i should be required to provide it, and it should be included in the plan.  That is, I shouldn&#039;t be penalized even $10 to do it.

And that&#039;s my view of what a national health plan should provide.  Not all HMOs behave this way.  As a consultant, having worked for twenty employers and therefore having had that many health plans, I can attest to the idea that most of them aren&#039;t any good.

And that&#039;s criminal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple years ago, one Sunday morning i got up real early, in pain.  I thought it was a stomach ache, and treated it that way for a few hours.  Then i drove myself to the hospital and checked into emergency. After stabilizing me, and running some tests it turned out that my gall bladder was non functional, and I was scheduled for surgery.  They took it out, and it turned out to be infected &#8211; gangrenous.  It all turned out fine, since i&#8217;m still alive.  I don&#8217;t even miss it.</p>
<p>A month or so later I got a bill for $0.00.  This was a good thing, since that is also the most I could afford at the time, for various reasons.</p>
<p>I like this health insurance.  It was very clear that i went to the hospital, and had expensive tests and surgery for cause.  In the mean time, my premiums are constant and predictable.</p>
<p>If they also required that i get some periodic checkup, and paid for that, then i&#8217;d get a periodic checkup.  I hate them, because the doctor says &#8220;You are in good health&#8221;, and it is something that i already knew.  So if doctors need baseline data,  then i should be required to provide it, and it should be included in the plan.  That is, I shouldn&#8217;t be penalized even $10 to do it.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s my view of what a national health plan should provide.  Not all HMOs behave this way.  As a consultant, having worked for twenty employers and therefore having had that many health plans, I can attest to the idea that most of them aren&#8217;t any good.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s criminal.</p>
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		<title>By: ThoughtCrimes.org</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/comment-page-1/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>ThoughtCrimes.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://216.110.190.15/2006/02/turning_patients_into_consumers_the_trickle-up_economics_of_hsas/#comment-152</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;News Roundup for 2/23&lt;/strong&gt;

Orcinus discusses that the skinhead movement is on the rise again, but don&#039;t fret. Following Bush&#039;s lead, it is compassionate racism, a kinder, gentler movement.

 Juan Cole explains why the latest developements in Iraq are VERY bad new</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>News Roundup for 2/23</strong></p>
<p>Orcinus discusses that the skinhead movement is on the rise again, but don&#8217;t fret. Following Bush&#8217;s lead, it is compassionate racism, a kinder, gentler movement.</p>
<p> Juan Cole explains why the latest developements in Iraq are VERY bad new</p>
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		<title>By: InsureBlog</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/comment-page-1/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>InsureBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://216.110.190.15/2006/02/turning_patients_into_consumers_the_trickle-up_economics_of_hsas/#comment-151</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Nattering Naysayers&lt;/strong&gt;

Rarely (if ever), do these folks point to great success stories of nationalized (or socialized, or, well, you pick the adjective) medicine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Nattering Naysayers</strong></p>
<p>Rarely (if ever), do these folks point to great success stories of nationalized (or socialized, or, well, you pick the adjective) medicine.</p>
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		<title>By: Trapier K. Michael</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/comment-page-1/#comment-143</link>
		<dc:creator>Trapier K. Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://216.110.190.15/2006/02/turning_patients_into_consumers_the_trickle-up_economics_of_hsas/#comment-143</guid>
		<description>Re: &quot;In theory, the president’s plan would reduce costs by a kind of trickle-up economics. If patients become more cost-conscious when they shop for health care services, eventually insurers will reduce premiums.&quot;

I am not sure that is completely accurate. A better understanding of consumer-driven healthcare cost-containment would include the price-lowering effect competitive forces will have on suppliers of healthcare once such forces are induced by widespread HSA adoption.   

Trapier K. Michael
www.Marketplace.MD
www.blog.marketplace.md</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8220;In theory, the president’s plan would reduce costs by a kind of trickle-up economics. If patients become more cost-conscious when they shop for health care services, eventually insurers will reduce premiums.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am not sure that is completely accurate. A better understanding of consumer-driven healthcare cost-containment would include the price-lowering effect competitive forces will have on suppliers of healthcare once such forces are induced by widespread HSA adoption.   </p>
<p>Trapier K. Michael<br />
<a href="http://www.Marketplace.MD" rel="nofollow">http://www.Marketplace.MD</a><br />
<a href="http://www.blog.marketplace.md" rel="nofollow">http://www.blog.marketplace.md</a></p>
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		<title>By: Marketplace.MD Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/comment-page-1/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>Marketplace.MD Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://216.110.190.15/2006/02/turning_patients_into_consumers_the_trickle-up_economics_of_hsas/#comment-150</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;[Oxford University Press Blog] Turning Patients into Consumers: The New Trickle-Up Health Care Economics&lt;/strong&gt;

Jill Quadagno: 

The presumption underlying the president’s plan is that the way we pay for health...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>[Oxford University Press Blog] Turning Patients into Consumers: The New Trickle-Up Health Care Economics</strong></p>
<p>Jill Quadagno: </p>
<p>The presumption underlying the president’s plan is that the way we pay for health&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The Next Left</title>
		<link>http://blog.oup.com/2006/02/turning_patient/comment-page-1/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>The Next Left</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://216.110.190.15/2006/02/turning_patients_into_consumers_the_trickle-up_economics_of_hsas/#comment-149</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Trickle-up Health Care&lt;/strong&gt;

This is one of the only times I have ever been inspired to trackback a trackback, but Jill Quadagno has written an excellent post on Oxford University Press&#039; blog about the vector of health care costs in America. Everyone who...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Trickle-up Health Care</strong></p>
<p>This is one of the only times I have ever been inspired to trackback a trackback, but Jill Quadagno has written an excellent post on Oxford University Press&#8217; blog about the vector of health care costs in America. Everyone who&#8230;</p>
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